Egg Bag

[Bill Mullins]

One of the more amazed moments I've had in magic was the first time I saw Johnny Thompson do the Egg Bag. I knew the egg had to be in the bag, but it couldn't have been. And I was lucky to see him do it a couple more times before he passed.

At MagicLive, I got a Malini Egg Bag from Lynetta Welch. I'm not much of a performer, but I'd like to learn the trick and maybe do it some day in front of an audience.

Along with a bag and egg, I got from her a copy of the Charlie Miller notes on the Malini Egg Bag from Magic Inc. And I already had Gene Anderson's book "The Book", with its description of his egg bag routine; Harry Reiser's "Secrets of an Escamoteur" with its description of the Charlie Miller/Harry Reiser Routine; Tarbell Vols 2 and 5; the big Johnny Thompson book; and the Bob White video. And the Stevens video on the egg bag (Martin Lewis, Tom Mullica, Billy McComb, Charlie Miller, and Johnny Thompson) is currently posted on youtube. Magicana hosts routines by Johnny Thompson, Ricki Dunn, Pete Biro, and Karrell Fox

So I'm sure I have enough material to put together a decent routine. But does anyone have any recommendations for other written or video descriptions/explanations I should seek out? Any performances to watch (I see Jeff Hobson's routine is also on youtube from a couple of different performances.)

[Q. Kumber]

My recommendation is start with Bob White and ignore everything else until you have done so. From there go in any direction you want.

[Tarotist]

I have seen the Johnny Thompson egg bag routine on video. Perhaps it is my low attention span to watching magic but I found his presentation slow and dreary. I fully realise that my reaction is not necessarily shared by other magicians but I can only comment from my own personal point of view.

I struggled to find a good routine with the egg bag for years without success. I first discussed it with a great pro of years ago, Jerry Bergman when I was working with him on the US army bases in Germany some decades ago. We tried to find an egg bag for sale in Germany but never got around to it so in the end I didn't do it. However, only a few years ago I finally put together a great egg bag routine of my own and it goes over great and has become one of my favourite tricks. The bit I like about it the best is that no audience participation is required. In other words I don't have to get someone up from the audience to feel inside the bag. I think it is a good idea to be sparing in the amount of times you get someone up from the audience. I learned that tip from Fu Manchu who wrote it up in Greater Magic. My egg bag routine fits into that philosophy quite well. It saves time for one thing and allows me to connect with the seated audience better for another.

The greatest part of my routine is the production of 5 or 6 eggs at the end of the trick plus a little touch of Peter Marucci's which he wrote up in the Linking Ring where you produce a little duck! Oddly enough the finish of the 5 or 6 eggs has been in print for decades but I have never seen anyone do it. I think it is the Roy Benson finish and it is described in Classic Secrets of Magic.

One thing that has always amused me. I have come across many, many magicians including eminent ones who hate the Egg Bag trick! I still remember Harry Stanley advising me never to use it! I am glad I ignored him!

[Bob Farmer]

I used the Egg Bag routine from My Best for years. Also, I didn't use an egg. I used a golf ball. And I didn't call it a "bag"--I said it was a pocket from a magician's tuxedo.

[erdnasephile]

Hi, Bill: Denny Haney's work on the egg bag is well worth studying, IMHO.

[PressureFan]

Not to be missed:
De Biere (1933) YouTube·British Pathé
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfDJoosgQds&t=7s

[MagicbyAlfred]

...But does anyone have any recommendations for other written or video descriptions/explanations I should seek out? Any performances to watch (I see Jeff Hobson's routine is also on youtube from a couple of different performances.)

Bill,

Jeff has an entire website dedicated to the egg bag. It features 10 videos, chock filled with great, detailed information, tips, finesses, etc.

[DS: Deleted for proprietary reasons; purchase Jeff's products and you can get access. http://www.hobsonschoicemagic.com/]

[Ted M]

I believe Denny Haney promoted the Ken Brooke manuscript as a standard:

https://www.magicinc.net/products/ken-b ... ni-egg-bag

[Ian Kendall]

Alfred;

Might want to remove that link - says explicitly 'don't share or post'...

[MagicbyAlfred]

Alfred;

Might want to remove that link - says explicitly 'don't share or post'...

Oh thanks for calling that to my attention, Ian. I hadn't noticed that. My apologies to Jeff.

[erdnasephile]

Arthur Trace has a unique routine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtWhgXSL688 which is fun to watch.
Interestingly, after the routine Penn states that P & T had never done the egg bag because they were terrible at it.
However, they eventually came up with a terrific take on the trick (performed with Kim Raver) on Fool Us.

[erdnasephile]

As an addendum to my previous post, Denny Haney's routine and thoughts on the Egg Bag appear in Denny Haney: Collected Wisdom.

Scott Alexander had also put out a video of Denny's Egg Bag workshop. No longer available at this time, but there is a snippet of Denny talking about the routine on this site: https://scottalexander.bigcartel.com/pr ... he-egg-bag

[Edward Pungot]

My recommendation is start with Bob White and ignore everything else until you have done so. From there go in any direction you want.

I’ll second this. Bill you come off as a straight man, meaning I’ve seen clips of your talk on YouTube at the G4G conference. A lot of the other references are a bit silly in style.

I’ve seen Jared Kopf do Bob White’s handling of this at Magic-Con way back. It was done very slowly and very deliberately and therefore very mysteriously and it kills on stage.

[AJM]

I have to say I don’t ‘get’ the egg bag, much in the same way as I don’t ‘get’ paddle magic and knives that change colour.

Andrew

[MagicbyAlfred]

I have to say I don’t ‘get’ the egg bag, much in the same way as I don’t ‘get’ paddle magic and knives that change colour.

Andrew

My personal view is that the egg bag can be very magical and provide a marvelous vehicle for entertainment. And i love color changing knives, as well. But again, that is my own personal viewpoint.

I would not try to convince AJM otherwise from his own feelings about it, any more than I would try to convince him to like apple pie if he does not. In fact, I think his post highlights a broader point, and that is that it doesn't matter what trick it is, if it is not one which resonates with a magician, one which he/she connects with and loves performing, for some reason, or none at all, then it is not for that magician and probably would not make the optimal impact on the audience even if the magician compelled him/herself to perform it.

I don't believe any further justification other than personal, subjective taste is needed for declining to include a trick in one's repertoire.

[Ian Kendall]

If you look at the egg bag as a sort of floppy chop cup that doesn't need a table, you are halfway there...

[Richard Kaufman]

The essential part of a routine with an Egg Bag is proving that the bag is empty. This requires all sorts of twisting, slapping, and various gyrations. None of that occurs in a Chop Cup routine, in which simply lifting the cup to show nothing underneath it proves that it's empty.

[Tarotist]

I have to say I don’t ‘get’ the egg bag, much in the same way as I don’t ‘get’ paddle magic and knives that change colour.

Andrew

As I mentioned already I have been quite surprised by the amount of magicians who just plain don't like the Egg Bag trick. As for paddle magic and colour changing knives you can get terrific results from them and I have never heard of magicians disliking them. The other tricks that I have heard magicians complain about is the Ambitious Card and Oil and Water routines. However, they are strong items in the right hands.

[erdnasephile]

Penn and Teller's great version is in the last segment of this episode of Fool Us: https://www.cwtv.com/shows/penn-teller- ... 1125fee4ef

[Ted M]

Is the Egg Bag in Greater Magic?

Btw, add me to the list of those left cold by paddles and color-changing knives.

If you're going to do magic with a knife, cut or stab something.

[Tarotist]

I do not believe the Egg Bag is in Greater Magic. I learned it from Classic Secrets of Magic by Bruce Elliott I actually have two different routines for it. One for children and one for adults. Both work great.

[Ian Kendall]

The essential part of a routine with an Egg Bag is proving that the bag is empty. This requires all sorts of twisting, slapping, and various gyrations. None of that occurs in a Chop Cup routine, in which simply lifting the cup to show nothing underneath it proves that it's empty.

I've a feeling you knew what I was getting at...

Both the bag and the chop cup are containers in which objects vanish and reappear, with the option of producing something incongruous as a finale. The structures of many of the published routines follow the same path, and for those who are approaching the bag anew, this can be a useful way to look at the subject.

[MagicbyAlfred]

...If you're going to do magic with a knife, cut or stab something.

I tried this when I debuted my not-yet-world-famous "Hari-Kiri" routine, but obviously the trick failed. I was so distraught after that, that I thought about ending it all.

[Richard Kaufman]

Btw, add me to the list of those left cold by paddles and color-changing knives. If you're going to do magic with a knife, cut or stab something.

I would agree with you if I had not seen the handlings of the Color-Changing Knives by Ascanio and Tamariz.

[Jack Shalom]

Count me as one more who is bewildered by the egg bag's popularity. It just doesn't feel like magic to me. A bag's too big, an egg's too small.

[erdnasephile]

Count me as one more who is bewildered by the egg bag's popularity. It just doesn't feel like magic to me. A bag's too big, an egg's too small.

I wonder if the contrast of the fragility of a "real" egg, combined with the rough handling of the "empty" bag helps make the impact despite the size differential?

[Richard Kaufman]

Bag should be small: the size of your extended fingers and thumb. Egg must be white.

[erdnasephile]

What is everyone's opinion on the issue of whether the bag should be a uniform color on both sides (Miller, White, Thompson, etc.) or one side black and the outside another color (Hobson, Bloom, etc.). (I go with the former for deceptiveness's sake).

[MagicbyAlfred]

Count me as one more who is bewildered by the egg bag's popularity. It just doesn't feel like magic to me. A bag's too big, an egg's too small.

I wonder if the contrast of the fragility of a "real" egg, combined with the rough handling of the "empty" bag helps make the impact despite the size differential?

Yes, I think that it is a big part of it. I have always used the Malini bag because it is relatively small (as Richard recommends) and it's black, providing a striking contrast to the white egg. I believe that heightens the mystery, as well, and it certainly optimizes visibility.

There can be so much more to the trick than just placing the egg in the bag, vanishing it, and reproducing it by pulling it out or having the spectator pull it out. For example, you can make the egg visibly rise out of the bag, Ala Danny Tong, a beautiful magical effect. It always gets great reactions. So does this visual vanish, which I've posted on TikTok, especially when followed by, as Erdnasephile put it, the "rough handling of the bag," coupled with the acquitment of turning it "inside out." I got the idea for the vanish from watching Danny perform his wonderful routine many moons ago:
https://www.tiktok.com/@alfreddowaliby/ ... 3836975658

PS Tiktok auto-"corrected" the caption I wrote, which was "An Eggsellent Vanish" and changed it to "An Excellent Vanish." Absolutely maddening! And there doesn't seem to be any way to edit it. Also, there wasn't anywhere that I could credit Danny, so I gave the credit down in the comments section..

"

[Bill Mullins]

Thanks to everyone who participates in this thread, especially those who answered my request.

@Q. Kumber -- yes, from the video it's very clear that Bob is an expert and knows exactly what he is doing and why he is doing it.

@taroist -- Mark's post contains the word "I" 19 times.

@Bob Famer -- thanks for the "My Best" reference. I have that book but had forgotten this.

@Pressurefan -- thanks for the link. Many performers and writers refer to De Biere's handling and its good to see it.

@ Ted M -- Lynetta also offered the Ken Brooke notes. After I got home and started looking up references in AskAlexander, I saw that many magicians recommended his work. Probably should have picked it up as well as the Charlie Miller notes.

@MagicbyAlfred -- Hobson's routine can be seen in the second half of this clip: https://www.jeffhobson.com/ewExternalFi ... AYshow.mp4 (and don't fret posting the link -- Hobson openly links to the page of videos here.

@Edward Pungot -- "Bill you come off as a straight man" -- so should I include this: "The egg is from a very rare endangered tropical bird called the "Oh No" bird. The male of the species has two inch legs and three inch balls, and every time it comes in for a landing it yells, "OH NO, OH NO!!"

Thanks much, and keep it coming.

[Bill Mullins]

And here is a huge list of egg bag references.

[Tarotist]

@taroist -- Mark's post contains the word "I" 19 times.

And your initial post contains the word "I" a dozen times. Not quite as many as mine but I had a longer post than yours in order to educate you on these matters. You requested information and I provided it. I probably get more reaction out of this trick than anyone else as befits my vast experience in these matters. It would therefore behoove you to pay attention to what I say rather than being diverted into wasting time counting words in my post.

The trouble with most egg bag routines is that they go on for ever and drag people out of the audience thus prolonging the agony even more. And for some reason beyond my comprehension hardly anyone uses the Benson production of 5 or 6 eggs at the end even though it has been in print for decades.

[Edward Pungot]

@Bill: That’s an altogether different type of humor, one that slowly cracks at one’s ego. It’s basically an egg that will eventually loose it’s sense of purpose and meaning and like the dodo bird completely vanish altogether the old riddle of which came first. It doesn’t matter, it’s already sunny side down. You can start by throwing the egg out to the audience. But they just might throw it back.

[Chas Nigh]

Thank you, Mark. You made my day. A perfect answer.

[Brad Henderson]

To end on the egg vanished or reproduce it?

I recommend the former

Ending on that dissonance drives the audience batty. They NEED the egg to come back. Don’t give it to them. Leave it vanished. Leave the mystery. You will find they come up years after and ask where the egg is!

That’s how you make the magic moment live

[Dustin Stinett]

Now here's a huge curve ball: Since seeing Mike Caveney do the Del Adelphia egg bag, all others fall short in my eyes. Yes, it's a larger bag, but he proves its emptiness convincingly (particularly when he pulls the bag through a ring too small for an egg to pass through). Ending with a basket filled with eggs, and then a live chicken (I should say "live" since he produces Robo-Chick these days), makes the routine make sense to the audience.

[Edward Pungot]

EMC 2010 Session 8
You can see Caveney perform this.

[magicam]

Dustin, that act was in print in England over 300 hundred years ago (see The Old Hocus Pocus, c.1718).

For those interested in a history of the egg bag in medieval Arabia, check out Pierre Taillefer's excellent essay in Gibeciere (v17n2, 2022), which covers the egg bag as only a small part of its survey of conjuring in the Arab world in that time.

[MagicbyAlfred]

Fun thread. A live chicken would be tough to beat as an ending. I frequently end by producing a large rubber chicken (if you fold it up and secure it with a rubber band, the loading is manageable, particularly if they think the routine is over). The production fits well with my opening theme that, "Since time immemorial, it has been debated, which came first the chicken or the egg?" Although Brad's post, recommending ending with a vanish, makes a lot of sense and has me thinking. I think the visual vanish of the egg which I posted (and which, although a big hit with laymen, not surprisingly drew zero comments from my peers on here), might be a good way to go as the ending -- accompanied by something along the lines of, "Well, that concludes the trick, so we won't be needing this any more."

[Brad Jeffers]

add me to the list of those left cold by paddles and color-changing knives.

How about changing the color of a card, or a ball, or a silk?
Is it the effect of changing somethings color that leaves you cold, or is it just when it's done with knives?